Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I must say that this committee started off discussing a very serious issue of national security, an issue of protecting Canadians, an issue of addressing the very serious matter where RCMP made allegations of murder, extortion, organized crime, intimidation and coercion by agents of the Indian government. There was agreement by this committee to move forward and address that. It's unfortunate that we have now gone to a place where we are discussing and debating how the NDP and the Liberals are working together to cover up names of MPs—not wanting to release names of MPs—who have not been working in the best interests of Canadians.

Ms. May talked about how she cannot release those names and that she, in fact, cannot take any action based on the information that she has because she has taken that clearance and read the names. She has the information, but she cannot release the names. She cannot do anything with that information. That is particularly the point. Receiving a secret briefing would, according to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's own chief of staff, Katie Telford, prevent a recipient from using the information in any manner. Essentially, the person who receives the briefing would not be able to use or do anything with that briefing. It is a gag order. It doesn't allow that person to take any action or discuss it with the information that they have.

Then she goes on to say, “Even where that it is not the case, briefing political parties on sensitive intelligence regarding an MP could put the leader or representative of a political party in a tough position, because any decision affecting the MP might have to be made without giving them due process.”

That is why the better situation would be for the Prime Minister.... He brought this up at the Hogue commission. He's the one who came out and said that, yes, there are Liberals and members of other parties on that list. He should bring that information forward. He should bring it publicly. He should release those names. In that way, political party leaders can take action as they see fit, based on those names, based on that information. Otherwise, as Ms. May herself has said, you cannot take any action. You cannot discuss those names, and you cannot release them.

For that reason, that is a better way to go. Within the CSIS Act, there actually is a provision to be able to give the leader of a party sensitive information, pertinent information, especially when it comes to the national security of the nation. All of that process is available. Justin Trudeau, as the Prime Minister, can give that information to any political leader, or he can release those names publicly. We would say that he release them publicly, because if there are members of Parliament who have been elected by Canadian citizens, by their electorate, and who are not working in the best interest of Canadians, then that information should be made public. That is the best way to deal with this. Canadians deserve to know who these people are.

Let's get back to the situation that we originally were dealing with. We were on foreign interference, and this is coming out of that. With regard to foreign interference, there are a number of steps that could have been taken to protect Canadians. It's unfortunate that we are now, on this very serious issue of foreign interference, discussing the NDP and the Liberals playing political games when we should be discussing how we can stop foreign interference. One of the very serious allegations that the RCMP has made against agents of the Indian government is that they were taking part in the extortion of Canadians.

We have heard in the last number of months, for over a year now, that very serious cases of extortion are happening across the country. There have been shootings at homes. Homes have been burnt down; over a dozen newly built homes in Edmonton were burnt down. There are businesses that have been shot at, some alleged to have been directed by international gangsters. These are issues that we should be looking at and should be debating.

I brought forward a private member's bill, Bill C-381, that would have given stricter penalties to anybody who takes part in extortion with mandatory minimum sentences to keep extortionists in jail longer. There would have been a minimum penalty of at least three years if somebody were to commit extortion; a four-year mandatory minimum sentence if somebody were to commit extortion using a firearm; and a five-year mandatory minimum sentence if someone were to commit extortion in connection with organized crime.

This links back to exactly what the RCMP has alleged: that agents of the Indian government are working with organized crime in Canada, particularly an organized crime unit out of India, the Bishnoi group, to extort Canadians here on Canadian soil. That last provision would aim to convict anyone who is involved in organized crime and extortion with a minimum of five years in jail.

Unfortunately, all of the NDP members in the House of Commons, as well as the Liberals, voted against that bill. It is unfortunate that when we talk in this place about protecting Canadians, taking steps to ensure that Canadians are kept safe and ensuring that Canadians are able to express themselves freely, to have political opinions that are different from others and to do so in a peaceful manner, and solutions come forward, the Liberals and the NDP do not take action. They did not vote in favour of that bill. They essentially are saying that they are fine with not keeping extortionists in jail longer. That, again, really speaks to how serious they are about addressing these issues. The issue that we are dealing with right now goes along in the same manner. We should be discussing ways of stopping foreign interference from any country, including India, and not looking at ways to make cheap political points, as they are doing right now.

On the issue of security clearance, the same day that the RCMP made these very serious allegations, the Leader of the Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, received a briefing from Canada's security agencies. He received all of the information. He got the same briefing that the leader of the NDP, Jagmeet Singh, got. Provisions are there to be able to give the Leader of the Opposition the information that is required without gagging him and without his not being able to speak about that information or take action against that information.

When it comes to the names of members of Parliament who have not been working in the interests of Canadians or have been colluding with a foreign nation, this is actually an issue that the Prime Minister brought up. I know the Liberal member was saying that we should not suggest that some members of Parliament in this place may be colluding with a foreign government or cast aspersions on other members of Parliament. It was actually the Prime Minister himself who did so. Those names can and should be released. Canadians deserve to know who those members of Parliament are. No other individual, including a party leader, just like Elizabeth May said, can release that information. Nobody else can do that, but the Prime Minister can.

If there are serious national security issues that the Leader of the Opposition should know, CSIS has the ability, within the CSIS Act, to provide that information to the Leader of the Opposition—the future prime minister—to ensure that he can take appropriate action.

Instead of going down this path of the NDP helping the Liberals cover up these names and getting together to make these cheap political points, I think this committee should continue with what we originally started off with, which is dealing with the very serious issues of foreign interference, of Canadians being assassinated—murdered—on Canadian soil, of extortion taking place across the country, of organized crime being used by a foreign government and of the intimidation and coercion of Canadians. This is a matter of our sovereignty and our democracy, and this committee now has—because of the NDP and the Liberals—turned to trying to make cheap political points. I suggest that we get back to the very important issues.

There are a number of questions that we have and should have as Canadians. If the RCMP alleges that a foreign gang is using gangsters in Canada and international gangsters to carry out extortion and the other organized crime, intimidation, then how is it that those Canadians, those people, are in Canada? Why are those people in Canada?

The RCMP statement reads, “Through our national taskforce and other investigative efforts, the RCMP has obtained evidence that demonstrates four very serious issues”. These are issues that we should be addressing here. One is “Violent extremism impacting both countries”. This is an issue that this committee should be looking into. There is also “Links tying agents of the Government of India (GOI) to homicides and violent acts” that are happening here in Canada. There is “The use of organized crime”—they actually named an international gang—“to create a perception of an unsafe environment targeting the South Asian Community in Canada”, and “Interference into democratic processes.”

It also says, “Investigations have revealed that Indian diplomats and consular officials based in Canada leveraged their official positions to engage in clandestine activities”. These are very serious issues.

I must say that these issues are very serious, but they are also ones that have been very difficult to speak to Canadians about. I had a number of phone calls from members of the Sikh community and others from across the country, but I also had to have conversations with my children. They're old enough now to hear about information and news, and they're also concerned about what's happening in our country. I talked to many Canadians who said that it's not the same country that they came to, a country that has that safety and security. After nine years of this government, we are not as safe as many people used to believe and not as safe as people were.

There are a number of ways that information can be shared in order to protect Canadians. What the Prime Minister wants to do is have our leader gagged, essentially, sworn into secrecy and provided some information but then not be able to talk about it, to tell Canadians about it or to take any action on it. CSIS already has ways of providing that information to the leader. In fact, the Treasury Board Secretariat's policy on government security has provisions through which they can provide that information to the leader. Cabinet ministers and, possibly, privy councillors can be provided that information. There is the NSICOP, a committee, that has been provided that information.

As I said before, there are the threat reduction measures, commonly known as TRMs, under section 12.1 of the CSIS Act. This information can be provided to the Leader of the Opposition to be able to take action as appropriate.

As for the names of MPs who have been possibly working or colluding with, knowing or unknowingly, and the leaders of the different parties...because there are Liberals on that list. I believe the Prime Minister also said members of the NDP. I know that he specifically mentioned Conservatives to make that political point, but there are Liberals on that list as well. The leaders of those parties, if that information is provided properly, can take action as they see fit. I also think the information should be provided publicly.

As I said, I think it's important that we get back to the very important issue of foreign interference in this country. Let's drop this attempt at making political points here in this committee and work at taking steps to protect Canadians.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Tim Uppal

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