Mr. Speaker, it is an honour and a rarity, I suppose, for me to rise to participate in a debate. I thank my friend from Winnipeg North for sharing his time with me and allowing me to put a couple of comments on the record regarding this very important motion.

I come to this issue with a slightly different perspective than previous speakers in that I was elected as a Conservative, as I think members of the House know. I support the Prime Minister, although no longer unequivocally since I left his caucus. I now have taken the position that, as an independent member of Parliament, I will examine government bills and legislation on a piecemeal basis and support those that I think are meritorious and for the benefit of my constituents and oppose those that are not. That applies, of course, to opposition motions as well.

When I look at the opposition motion that we are debating here this afternoon, it is with some reluctance that I have come to the conclusion that I have to support the motion. I am reluctant for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it has come to this, that the Liberal opposition has had to use one of its opposition days to raise a motion to compel the Prime Minister of Canada to appear before the access to information and ethics committee to testify under oath as to what he did or did not know concerning what is consuming the Canadian public as the Wright-Duffy scandal.

It is sad that it has come to this point because I believe in responsible government. In the British parliamentary system, the government is responsible to Canadian citizens through this elected chamber. Canadians elect parliamentarians, 308 of us currently and there will be a few more after the next election, and our job is to hold the government to account. Had the government been more forthcoming with respect to what it knew and did not know, I do not believe the motion would be necessary. The fact that it is necessary I find very regrettable.

I, too, hear from hundreds of constituents on topics regarding virtually every aspect of government. However, in the last six months no single topic has dominated the emails, phone calls and casual conversations with my constituents more than the so-called Senate scandal. However, it is not a Senate scandal. The problems with respect to the Senate expenses are big problems, but they are, in my view, the least significant aspect of all of this. As offended as I suspect most Canadians are that senators are alleged to have claimed housing and travel expenses they were not entitled to, and they are outraged at that, the bigger issue in my view and in the view of Canadians and constituents I have talked to is the Prime Minister's involvement with respect to one of those senators, that of course being Senator Duffy.

The bombshell was dropped in this place on May 14 or 15 that the former chief of staff to the Prime Minister had cut a cheque in the amount of some $90,000 to reimburse Canadian taxpayers for Senator Duffy's ineligible expense claims. That raised many questions, not the least of which was what the quid pro quo was. What did the Prime Minister's Office and the chief of staff expect that senator to do in exchange for this very generous gift of $90,000? Of course, we have heard all sorts of allegations and suggestions.

The senator has indicated in the other place that there was some massive conspiracy orchestrated by the Prime Minister's Office to make that scandal go away, which was becoming a political scandal, and therefore, I suspect, salvage the reputation of a senator who at one time was a very loyal and valued member of the Conservative caucus and the Conservative Party, especially on the fundraising circuit. The problem I have with all of this, from what I hear in the other place and in question period on a daily basis, is that none of this qualifies as evidence.

There are many lawyers in this room and we should be very concerned about what is happening in both chambers of Parliament. Everything is protected by privilege, none of it is under oath and none of it is subject to cross-examination, yet very serious allegations have been made. It has been suggested that the Prime Minister's Office may have breached the Criminal Code of Canada and the Parliament of Canada Act with respect to influencing a sitting legislator. That is a very serious charge that, if made out, could result in jail time for those convicted.

On the other side of the equation, of course, are three senators whose very offices are held in the balance of a vote that I suspect is going to take place within 90 minutes. They have not been criminally charged, but they have been accused of being, shall I say, “creative” with respect to their expense accounts.

Again, there is all sorts of contrary evidence with respect to those suggestions. There appears to be more or less compliance with the audits that were undertaken, but the legislative committees that examined those audits came to different conclusions and made certain orders. Some of those orders have been complied with, and in the case of Senator Duffy, under some fairly unorthodox matters.

This is where I wish, quite frankly, in the House of Commons during question period that Canadians and parliamentarians would get the answers that we deserve. We believe in responsible government. We have had responsible government in this country since before we were a country. In 1848 in Nova Scotia, Joseph Howe was the premier of the then colony of Nova Scotia, the first colony anywhere in colonial Britain to achieve responsible government.

It is a very simple concept. The government, the cabinet, the executive is responsible to the democratically elected chamber, which is this place. Therefore, it is in this place that, all things working out as they should, the Prime Minister ought to, in my view, answer the questions from the opposition, from the third party and from members of his own caucus if they were so inclined to ask with respect to what the Prime Minister knew and when he knew it.

I have consistently believed the Prime Minister, and I have been very public about this. I have been asked many times and I have always indicated that I believe the Prime Minister's version of events, that he was kept in the dark regarding this highly unusual, unorthodox and possibly illegal transaction between his former chief of staff and a sitting senator. However, I am not sure that ends it.

We live under the parliamentary concept of the convention of responsible government. The Prime Minister is responsible for the operation of two departments of that government: one is the Prime Minister's Office and the other is the Privy Council Office. The Prime Minister is responsible to this democratically elected chamber for what goes on there.

Based on the dribs and drabs of information that we have received during question period, we know that there were some very unorthodox activities, possibly illegal activities, between the then chief of staff and three sitting senators. It is incumbent upon the Prime Minister to answer not only for what he knew or did not know, and he has been very clear about what he did not know, but also to answer for the operation of the department that bears his name. He is the PM in the PMO, the Prime Minister's Office.

It is a systemic breakdown of a system with no checks and balances, even within the Prime Minister's Office, involving a rogue chief of staff and apparently several other individuals, a few according to the Prime Minister and up to 11 or 12 according to some media reports. That this type of systemic breakdown could occur where that number of individuals would be involved or at least have knowledge of an operation and could somehow keep the Prime Minister unapprised of it, I think, is worthy of examination.

The Prime Minister ought to come forward with some candour with respect to what goes on in his office. How can this type of activity go on without his knowing about it?

I was elected as a Conservative. I am one of those who came to Ottawa on a so-called “white horse” to clean up government. I believe in the Prime Minister, but I would think that he would want the opportunity to salvage his reputation and that of his government by appearing before a committee, since the Conservatives do not seem to be inclined to do it in the House of Commons during question period.

Admittedly, question period only allows for very brief questions and even briefer answers, and seldom are they ever really answered anyway. However, a committee, where people have multiple rounds of questions and can follow up, would be an opportunity for the government to come clean and for the Prime Minister to restore the integrity of his office.

I think it is important that the Prime Minister do so, because the integrity of the Prime Minister is fundamental to Canadians' belief in their government.

Brent Rathgeber

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